Panzer IV Computer Model Project

[BillieJean]

Starting the Thread for the Panzer IV Digital Model and Interior Production Kit. This is a little history of how this started and future plans of what I am hopefully trying to achieve with all this.

This all started out as I am/was planning to do a Dio of a few Panzer IV D's that were returned to the Factory to be retrofitted/upgraded to the up-gunned version and wanted them to be completely torn down and I wasn't really to happy with any of the kits out there so I decided to do my own interior kit and one thing led to another and here I am now 8 months later with this growing into a monster.

I am doing the Computer Version as a Reference source as to hopefully update many the old 2D drawings of past and add more information that wasn't available before the internet and I have to say Spielberger's book is still pretty much right on with Doyal's drawings, for being over 30 years old.

I am Machining and scratch building a 1/35th set of masters of the interior for a company that will be selling them once we iron out the details and I actually get it done.
Right now it looks like it will be in 3 or 4 sections/kits.
Full lower hull kit for any PZ IV based vehicle.(And for those who want to use the Dragon Turret supplied parts.)
Engine compartment
Drivers compartment
Fighting Compartment and Turret. But that will be up to the manufacturer to do it how they want to produce it. (I was asked not say who it was until the masters are in hand as too many manufacturers announce were going to make such and such kit and then never transpires)

I may test the waters with Shapeways or Click2details for a 3d printed version.(But I think the prices are still a little on the high side for the average modeler but I foresee that changing in the future as materials become more mainstream and readily available)
I personally will be Machining and building a Complete 1/4 scale Museum Display Model for myself and possibly a 1/6th scale add on kit.

I'm not much of a writer but I wouldn't mind partnering with one and possibly publish a new updated book, But I think/heard "The Research Squad" is in the process of doing one based on the Wheatcroft Collection so not sure we would need another.

I am/will be working on some other Models and Kits also.
Here is a few that I have collected a huge amount of information about so far and have started putting together.
10Ton Crane. (SdKfz 9/2 (Famo) and Faun)
Strabokran 15t, 16t and various smaller Cranes
Vogele Turntable for Leopold
to name a few.

I am striving to make these models as Accurate as possible so if you see any errors please don't hesitate to show me what's wrong.
The more and more research I do the more I find out that there seems to be no standard way a component was made between various Manufactures.

All renderings will be free to Use/Share and download for Personal Use.
(For Commercial Use Please Contact me for Licensing Requirements)
Sorry.. I will not be making the actual Cad Files Available at this time.

Here A few machined test parts of the brake cover. The large one is no specific scale since it was made to fit a scrap piece of resin at 1.75"
The Cooling Intake Vents will be drilled out and I will install a PE Mesh on the final Part on the large scale model.

The small one is 1/35th the Master was CnC Machined out then Cast (Yes that is a #80 Drill bit) along with all the controls and Misc other parts to start test fitting everything together before I do the final masters.

[BillieJean]

Here is the start of the Renderings of progress so far.

[Minsk94]

You did a really nice and big amount of work!
Couple of questions, though: it is my understanding you went with the fuel tank sizes based on their capacity? Is it possible they were not that high? (it just seems they are too far away from the outside wall)
Why do you need a third party business to sell and market your future resin interior. It seems like you are pretty capable of producing it yourself.

[BillieJean]

Thanks Minsk,
My line of thinking and from the hand drawing in Spielberger's book on the tanks being set back is the fuel fillers come down enter from the side top. (This is the way it is on my Lift truck with 2 50 gallon tanks not that means anything)

I was looking at the contact marks in a photo, But then on the flip side when looking at one of the hanger brackets could have definitely be holding an L shaped tank or actually a Z Tank as there is a Large electrical run/conduit that runs under the drive shaft housing and feeds into a rotary connector for the turret so the tank couldn't go under turret recess and feed the front compartment.

It Just seemed like a lot of man hours to make a funky shaped tank vs a Square rolled tank taking into account German designers efficiency in designs for fast production.. But I could and probably am mistaken . I do have a set drawn that also fit that opening.

As for casting up the kits. I use to own a Resin Company in the 80s and 90s Called Panzer Concepts which split off to form Tank Workshop and Tank Maker which Tiger Models Designs bought them out and then sold off the tank workshop stuff to the New Tank Workshop.Kind of a resin soap opera. (I still have the King Tiger and M-26 Dragon Wagon Masters which Tamiya used as reference for their Kit)))((Shameless ego plug there )
Anyway after doing that for many years it really burned me out for on model building and dealing with all the BS so now that I am building again I decided to just build and cast for me and license my masters and trying to open a Model Resin Business on top of running my sign business wouldn't leave much time to just enjoy my hobby...
If we can't come to a decent Licensing agreement then I may do some limited runs of the kits but not sure on quantities. Most of the producers offers right now are a Joke. Trying not to be a bitch but after 35 years of doing this I don't need the practice. That is one reason I am being so open with the work and showing the details as I go. I would rather have the modellers enjoy and appreciate the work vs doing all this just to keep it stored on my computer and no one ever seeing it so some Garage resin shop can have something "Special"

If I do end up producing the kit it will not be a kit for the faint of heart.I would probably make 2 versions
One Kit would be almost all Photoetch to keep scale thicknesses and a CRAPLOAD of parts.(Right now I am siting at close to 800 individual pieces/parts and still have a few 1000 more to go.(I plan on approaching Voyager or Griffon with this one, I can make my own PE but I'm not automated so it would be too time consuming for me to make more then a handfull for sale.
The second version would be thin walled appliques (Like the zimmerit appliques) with all the details machined in and you just apply them to the floor and sidewalls. Then install the rest of components.

I may test the waters with setting up a shapeways or click2detail web storefront but I think the 3D printed kits are still a little to pricy but maybe the prices will drop as the technology advances. I just purchased my own small 3D printer which will be here next month so I will play with that first to see.. I know it won't be the print quality of the STL machines but it will work good for prototyping test fits.. If I like it I may purchase a 3D wax printer, the same machine they use for making Jewelry Masters with insane resolution then print the parts in wax to make my molds from that.
So either way we'll see..

Sorry for the long winded post.

[BillieJean]

By the way.. I think my lower brackets may be upside down.. If you were to take that strap that's next to the fuel filler and straighten it out the hanger would have the U facing up as it hinges towards the Driveshaft tunnel.

Now just staring at the photo if you zoom in to the back filler tube it almost looks like the filler tube cuts back to where a second pipe would connect to go in the side of the tank.. Or it could just be a piece of Garbage.

[Minsk94]

Sometimes it is a good idea to just make a quick mock up out of paper. It will not take too long, but it will help to visualize exactly what you are doing.
I've been in visual arts my entire life and I realize a long time ago that very often you just have to touch the "real" thing (even if you think you know the subject perfectly). That may be helpful figuring out those brackets also.

[BillieJean]

Thanks,, Yes I always make a "Paper Panzer" First to check my fit.. Plus I'm doing 2 sets of these.. One is for the Interior kit which I actually have to make a Tad bit wrong so it will fit in Available model kits.
The second set is for the Big Model and at 1/4 scale I can actually make all the armor scale thickness.

[Minsk94]

Consider me first in line to try one of those. If it is in the 35th scale, of course.

[BillieJean]

No Problem. and yes it will be in 35th scale. The 1/4 scale kit/model is just for me unless someone is willing to drop around 8-10k for me to machine them one.
A few more tweaks and do a final paper print then I will be machining out all the base layers this weekend..Most of all those details will be made/cast in one part.. Going to do it the same as the Zimmerit Kits so there will be no blocks to sand off. Just glue a few thin sheets of resin to the inside hull the your ready to attach all the details and major components. All the wiring conduits and clips will be cast right on the "skin" so just a wash and drybrush and your done.. I plan on having the break down of the kit as 2 separate kits or one master kit. (However the Manufacture wants to do is up to him though)
My idea is Kit 1 will be just the lower hull,Trans and Engine and it currently fits any panzer IV based vehicle kit available and will include a Solid deck for use in the Brumbar/Stugs, Berge, Bridglayer and so on along with the ring deck if you want to use it with the dragon or tristar kit that has the turret interior.. Kit 2 will be the full turret assembly with all details and wiring.

Now I am starting to make it vehicle specific. The first one I will be doing is the Late H and J to coincide with my Final days Build.
Still need to readjust the rear deck and floor. Ignore the colors.. I apply the colors odd for setting up the Machine files according to depth/thickness

[Minsk94]

Just a thought...
Due to the pictures that recently came up, it seems like your fuel tanks may be too big. Or maybe it is just the angle I am looking at them. If you went from the volume, then they should be correct; but the fact that the real ones have beveled edges will make them look smaller than on your CAD drawings, no?



What do you think?

[BillieJean]

Yeppers.. I think your right..I know I went by Volume but by adding the bump outs That would make them smaller.. Plus from the photos from the Facebook page I think I have them dialed in.. So much for my logical Thinking of ease of manufacturing theory.

And buy looking at the filler neck.. That is sheet metal not brass like I read in the Panzer IV in detail book.
Just goes to show.. Just because you write a book doesn't mean you're right.

By the way.. What site did you find those on.
The Russian Version of AJ

[Minsk94]

By the way.. What site did you find those on.

You will be surprised...
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 302&type=1